Interviewee: Bernard K. Hall

Interviewer: Charles M. Davis

Interview Date: June 4, 2015

Location: Louisburg, N.C.

Length: 00:38:53

Audio Excerpt

Charles Davis: My name is Charles Davis. Today is June 4, 2015 and I am interviewing Bernard Hall. This interview is for the oral history of school desegregation in Franklin County, North Carolina, sponsored by the Tar River Center for History and Culture at Louisburg College with funding provided by the North Carolina Humanities Council.

We are proceeding to interview Bernard Hall. Will you give us your full name, please?

Bernard Hall: Sure, full name is Bernard Kellon Hall.

CD: Where do you live?

BH: Here in Louisburg.

CD: And when and where were you born?

BH: Actually born here in Louisburg in April, 1959.

CD: Okay. Your parents’ names?

BH: Kellon Hall, my father, and Celia Hall, my mother.

CD: What did your father do for a living?

BH: My father was primarily a farmer and part-time builder.

CD: Did your mother work outside the home?

BH: Yes. My mother was a schoolteacher for her entire career, for just shy of forty years.

CD: And she also led the Girl Scout troop.

BH: She was a Girl Scout leader for I forget how many years but I think it might have been close to thirty.

CD: A long time, because I remember her very well. [Laughs]

BH: Right.

CD: Do you have any siblings?

BH: I have one sister.

CD: Where does she live?

BH: She’s in Raleigh.

CD: Is she older or younger?

BH: She’s older.

CD: Okay. How much older?

BH: About four years.

CD: Okay. What is the nature of your work?

BH: I’m a general contractor and a home inspector primarily.

CD: How long have you been in that business?

BH: Since 1998. It’s really kind of a second career for me.

CD: What was your first career?

BH: As an engineer, industrial engineer.

CD: Okay. Where did you go to college?

BH North Carolina State.

CD: When did you graduate?

BH: ’82.

CD: What was your degree?

BH Industrial engineering.

CD: Tell me what it was like growing up in Franklin County prior to the integration of schools.

BH: Prior to integration I guess I remember what is now the central office for Franklin County Schools was the school where I started school, which was Riverside Union School at the time, and–.

CD: Now when you say “union school,” what do you mean by that?

BH: Well that was the name. That’s just the name I remember. It was Riverside Union School.

CD: But it had grades one through twelve.

BH: It had grades one through twelve, that’s correct. That’s where I–. Well of course I started first grade and that’s where I was, first, second, and third grades, prior to desegregation.

CD: What year did you start school?

BH: Let’s think. That would have been, I believe, ’65.

CD: Who was your teacher?

BH: My first grade teacher was Ms. Fogg.

CD: Okay. I believe Ms. Louise Johnson was also a first grade teacher over there, wasn’t she?

BH: She was there in that same building; sure was.

CD: But you didn’t have her.

BH: I didn’t.

CD: Okay. Your sister was four years ahead of you?

BH: Four or five, yeah.

CD: So she would have been in the fourth or fifth grade.

BH: That’s right.

CD: In 1965, when you started.

BH: That’s right.

CD: Prior to the integration–. Well do you remember when the Franklin County Board of Education implemented a freedom of choice? I think it was in 1965 or ’66?

BH: I do not, because, you know,–

CD: You don’t remember that.

BH: –at that time–. Well, I guess primarily because at that age that was not something that I necessarily–. Of the things I kept up with at that age, that wasn’t one of them.

CD: Of course your mother was in the school system–

BH: That’s correct.

CD: –at that time.

BH: Right.

CD: Do you remember any family discussions around the dinner table or anything like that about the integration of the schools?

BH: Not so much. I’m sure it was but, you know, my memory of it is not–. There’s nothing that stands out in terms of what my parents talked about at home.

CD: Okay. In 1965 the board did implement a freedom of choice program in grades one, two, nine, and twelve. Your parents didn’t elect to ask that you be sent to a school other than Riverside during that time, did they?

BH: They did not.

CD: And how about your sister?

BH: Did not.

CD: Okay. So both of you continued on at Riverside.

BH: Correct.

CD: How did you feel about the school you were attending, Riverside, during the first two years you were over there?

BH: It was–. I guess, because I didn’t have anything else to compare it to, I mean it seemed to be a typical school environment, so I can’t say that I had any particular feelings about it, good, bad, or indifferent. The expectation in our house was you’re going to go to school and you’re going to do well, so that’s what I attempted to do. I think the one thing I remember about Riverside was it was a very crowded campus with grades one through twelve and with the size of it. There was a lot of students and a lot of staff and a lot of activity in a very small place. That’s the one thing that I do remember.

CD: When you say the size of the campus, I believe Riverside had three athletic teams, baseball, basketball, and football, for male students. Is that true?

BH: That sounds right, yeah.

CD: And how about female students? Do you remember the athletic teams that they had available to them?

BH: Actually my memory of that would only be from looking at yearbooks from those years, and I believe I remember the female teams as well. I’m pretty sure I do. I didn’t have–. Again, since I was in the elementary grades, what was going on at the high school grades with organized athletics wasn’t necessarily on my radar at that time.

CD: I can understand that.

BH: Yeah.

CD: So you didn’t really give a whole lot of thought about where you played basketball or where you played football or that kind of thing.

BH: Right, right.

CD: Okay. Do you remember the lawsuit that was filed against the Franklin County Board of Education to integrate the public schools?

BH: I don’t.

CD: You don’t remember anything about that, but you’ve heard a lot about it since.

BH: Since that time, yes, but my age–. At the time it was going on my knowledge of it was pretty much nonexistent.

CD: I believe your first year of full integration was when you were in the third grade.

BH: No, fourth grade.

CD: Fourth grade. So you had been three years at Riverside.

BH: That’s correct.

CD: Prior to that, I believe you all had two white teachers over there?

BH: You know, actually–.

CD: Do you remember that?

BH: I think there may have been–. Because I went back and looked. Since we discussed this a little bit before, I went back and looked at a yearbook. I think there may have been four white staff members [after desegregation began but before full integration].

CD: Do you know what grades they were teaching?

BH: Seems like I remember, I think there was two teachers, and I think one of the librarians, and I think maybe a counselor. Yeah. So I think there were teachers as well as other staff members.

CD: And did you have any contact with those teachers or staff members?

BH: Did not. Well, actually, the librarian, yes.

CD: Okay.

BH: The lady who ran the library, whose name escapes me right now. I want to say her last name might have been Smith. But, yeah, I remember the librarian.

CD: Okay. In addition to the four white teachers or staff members you had, were there any white students at Riverside at that time?

BH: Not that I recall.

CD: So it was all staff. Do you recall any of your students, a student from Riverside, being assigned to Louisburg School during that year?

BH: I became aware of that in later years but at the time I didn’t have any knowledge of that.

CD: But you didn’t have any friends, people you considered close friends, being assigned to Louisburg School?

BH: Correct, did not.

CD: Okay, so you didn’t have a chance to talk to them to get their reaction to how they were treated or any kind of thing like that.

BH: Right.

CD: Did you hear any discussion about how students were treated at Louisburg School, the black students who were assigned to Louisburg prior to full integration?

BH: Did not; did not hear anything about that.

CD: Okay. So, full integration came after your third grade and going into the fourth grade.

BH: Entering fourth grade, correct.

CD: And what school were you assigned to?

BH: Well, at that time, I remained at Riverside, and I’m struggling to remember what they actually named it after desegregation, but the way the grade levels were structured at that time–. I have to stop and kind of remember this. I think it was grades one through four were at the Riverside campus and grades five through twelve were at what is now Louisburg High School.

CD: And that was total integration.

BH: That’s right. That’s the way it was the first year.

CD: So the first four grades from Louisburg School came over to the school you had been attending,–

BH: Right.

CD: –and the five through twelve went to Louisburg School.

BH: Right.

CD: Okay. The first year of full integration, can you sort of describe that for us, how you looked at it, how you felt about it, who your teachers were?

BH: You know the thing that stands out to me probably the most about that year was not so–. Well I shouldn’t say not so much, but in addition to the desegregation it was a year that–. I was in a class where we had a substitute for a good portion of the year, so the day to day classroom management was a little bit less than what we consider today as the optimum. We had a situation where I was in one classroom most of the day but we also changed classes for certain subjects during the day, and in the changing of classes was the first interaction I had with the white students who were then on the campus.

CD: Now, what kind of interaction did you have with the white students?

BH: Well, I mean it was–.

CD: Was it just passing in the hall or were you in the same classes with them?

BH: We actually were in the same class. Well, during those times when we changed classes, we were – quote, unquote – integrated.

CD: Okay. How about your teachers? What race were your teachers?

BH: Well now, the class where I had the substitute, there was an African American teacher, and then the class where I went part of the day there was a white teacher, and that was Ms. Perry.

CD: The class that you had the substitute in, was the teacher at the beginning of school white or black?

BH: Black.

CD: Okay. So she was the one that got sick and you had a substitute come in.

BH: Right.

CD: Okay. Did you actually have classes with white students during that first year of integration?

BH: Yeah, during that brief period during the day, and I think–. It seems like we may have had English and some other subject but, yeah; just for that one segment of the day.

CD: How did that work?

BH: You know, it was – and I think the word I used before was–. It was awkward. I think it was a little awkward for everybody. I remember there was a lot of stares back and forth. Even as youngsters at that young age you’re kind of looking at folks that you just weren’t accustomed to seeing in a classroom environment.

CD: It was something new.

BH: It was something new. I mean certainly we were accustomed to seeing those same folks out on the street, in the stores, other places, but in an educational environment it was awkward, it was different, it was new.

CD: In your own words, tell us how you felt like it worked.

BH: In hindsight, I mean I think it went as well as it could have. For that fourth grade year I don’t recall any particular major disruptions or incidents. I guess if you compare it to a dating situation it’s kind of like you’re in the honeymoon phase. I think both sides were kind of, for the most part, trying to be on their best behavior, trying to see: how’s this going to go?

CD: Did you detect any animosity among students?

BH: None that was what I would consider – I’m searching for a word here – that was evil or of not good intentions. The only thing I remember was, I remember once, during the time that we changed classes, one of the black students came in and sat in a white student’s seat that was empty at the time, and when the chairs were rearranged the white student came over and was kind of wiping the seat out, as to remove something. But he didn’t do it in an ugly way; he did it kind of in an attempting-to-be-comical way. So, that’s the only thing that kind of stands out.

CD: How did that go over with the other black students in the class?

BH: I’m not sure a whole lot of folks saw it. I mean it was–. You know, we had this – and I don’t even remember the number of us that went into the class, the number of black students that went in. But it was at a time when we came in, we were trying to listen to what the directions are, you know, where we’re going to sit, what we’re going to do, and it wasn’t a major–. It wasn’t something that everybody stopped and kind of gulped at.

CD: How did the students get along with each other on the playground?

BH: You know, there was a fair amount of self-segregation on the playground, cafeteria, other places, so even though we were, at that point in time, on the same campus physically, when you looked at how the students grouped themselves for different activities it was still kind of two groups. So it was still a degree of segregation, even though we were desegregated.

CD: How long was it before the students began to sort of integrate with each other on the playground?

BH: I don’t remember too much that first year. I mean I would say that probably came within the next year or two, after the first year. Probably in the second year, I would say, is when I saw that the students were kind of starting to get past some of the unseen barriers that they put between themselves.

CD: Did you ever see yourself or did you ever hear of any problems that students had on the playground with each other?

BH: Not in our grade level. We would hear every now and then about things. Some of the students would have older siblings that were at the high school and you would hear about things, a little bit of unrest at the high school, but in our grade level, no.

CD: During that year, which was the ’68-69 school year,–

BH: Correct.

CD: –your grade was the top grade in the school you were in, the fourth grade. That was the highest grade.

BH: That’s right.

CD: So the next year you went–. What school did you go to the next year?

BH: The next year I went to what is now Louisburg High School, and grade five was over there. I don’t remember exactly when it happened but there was a point in time when the fifth grade was moved back to the Riverside campus.

CD: But you never did–. You didn’t do that.

BH: Correct.

CD: Once you went to Louisburg in the fifth grade you stayed at Louisburg–

BH: That’s correct.

CD: –the rest of your high school–.

BH: That’s correct.

CD: The rest of your school career. Okay. How did it work when you moved to Louisburg?

BH: Of course at that time we had grouping strictly by academic performance.

CD: Right.

BH: So at that time–. You know, I can only assume. I guess I’m making some assumptions here or making some guesstimations. I guess that first year, in the fourth grade year, I guess they were trying to figure out how they were going to blend classes and blend students. The fifth grade year, the second year of desegregation, was when we had full desegregation in the classroom, and when I mean “full” I mean for the entire day, so at that point in time, my fifth grade year for example, I was in a class the entire day that was pretty much all white students and there was probably–. I should go back and maybe look at a yearbook and see if I can count but I want to say there may have been half a dozen, six or eight, black students, something like that.

CD: In your class.

BH: Right.

CD: In your classroom.

BH: Right.

CD: Going back to your fourth grade, were those sections of grades segregated? In other words, in the fourth grade, if you had six different sections, six different teachers teaching fourth grade–. I understood you to say that you changed classes.

BH: Right.

CD: But were your homerooms segregated, or did you have integration, or do you remember?

BH: I don’t remember very clearly that year, because again I’m not really sure how they were trying to accomplish things that first year. I want to suspect they probably were, for the most part, during the majority of the day, the classrooms were still segregated.

CD: But you did have integrated classes.

BH: A portion of the day.

CD: During your fourth grade.

BH: A portion of the day.

CD: Okay, back to Louisburg. When you got up there, how did you feel when you went to a formerly all white school?

BH: I think I just–. I think it was just another classroom.

CD: Just a school.

BH: Yeah, right.

CD: How did you all get along on the Louisburg campus?

BH: I think everybody blended fairly well.

CD: I believe Thomas Riggan was the principal at that time?

BH: That's correct.

CD: Your teachers in the fifth grade, were they black, white, or you had both?

BH: It was both.

CD: Do you remember anything of significance that occurred in your first year at Louisburg High School as far as animosity among the students and that kind of thing?

BH: Not so much animosity. I do, and I think I relayed the story before, I remember we had a local celebrity who visited the school, who would have been Henry Bibby whose family was from Franklinton.

CD: Right.

BH: And I do remember–. His aunt was a teacher over there, I think she taught sixth grade, and he came to visit. At the time he was a player at UCLA and I remember when he came down the [hall] someone saw him coming and all the black students were just kind of–. They knew who he was, they were excited, and they were just kind of worked up, and the white students kind of sat to the side, trying to figure out, why are you so–? You know, what’s the big deal? That wasn’t necessarily an animosity type thing; it was just–. It demonstrated a clear difference. You’ve got one group of folks, they’ve got certain heroes and certain folks they looked up to, and another, they’ve got their own different set of heroes. So, yeah; that’s the one thing I remember.

CD: And that was when you were in the fifth grade?

BH: That was fifth grade.

CD: And you continued at Louisburg School from the time you went there in the fifth grade through high school.

BH: That’s correct.

CD: How would you describe your experience at Louisburg School?

BH: You mean on through to graduation?

CD: All the way through, yeah.

BH: It was a small environment, everybody pretty much knew everybody else for the most part. The segregation kind of became–. To a large degree the segregation was – let me see how to phrase this – the segregation started out along academic lines because even at the elementary grades you had grouping by academic performance, but then when you got to high school you had certain students that were on a college career track and they took certain courses, and then others who didn’t have that as a goal, they took other courses. So the segregation kind of, it was based on academics, but it still to a large degree turned out to be, if you looked at the numbers, it was racial segregation kind of by way of, if I can describe–.

CD: Academics.

BH: Yeah, by way of academics.

CD: Did you encounter any problems with white students during your experience at Louisburg School?

BH: Not really, no.

CD: How about in high school?

BH: No, not really.

CD: I think we talked about this before. Were you involved in athletics?

BH: I ran track a little bit but that’s about it.

CD: The track team was integrated, I take it.

BH: That’s right.

CD: Have any problems there?

BH: No.

CD: You graduated in what year from Louisburg High School?

BH: ’77.

CD: ’77, so you were not in high school the year they won the state championship?

BH: That’s correct. I think I would have been–. Do you remember what year that was?

CD: ’71 or ’72, somewhere along in there.

BH: Yeah, so I would have been back down in the–. Yeah.

CD: I remember Robbie McDonald was on the team.

BH: Uh huh, right.

CD: And I think Wilbur Moore was on the team and a couple of the Egerton boys.

BH: The Egertons, right.

CD: But you don’t remember anything about that.

BH: Well, I do remember–. I think, you know, when they were playing in the finals and for the championship, they had a bus that would go to the games and I do remember going–.

CD: Did you go?

BH: I’m trying to remember if I went to the winning game. I know I went to some of them, yeah.

CD: Played at Broughton High School.

BH: They were at Broughton High School, that’s correct.

CD: I was there. [Laughs]

BH: Yeah.

CD: You are now on the Franklin County Board of Education.

BH: Correct.

CD: And you’ve been on the board of education since 1999.

BH: Well–. Right. End of ’98 I was elected.

CD: Did you run countywide or did you run in a district at that time?

BH: I ran in a district.

CD: In the Louisburg district.

BH: Yeah. I guess if you look at the precincts it’s Louisburg Country East and Louisburg Country West.

CD: Okay. Have you been chairman of the board of education during your tenure?

BH: I was chair from 2002 to 2006.

CD: Okay. Now, having served on the board of education now for, what, sixteen years,–

BH: That’s right.

CD: –looking back – and I don’t mean this to be an unfair question – but looking back, based on your experience, would you have gone about integrating the Franklin County Schools in any way different from what did take place?

BH: It’s hard to say because, as I mentioned earlier, the age that I was when desegregation took place, I kind of had tunnel vision, you know, and that tunnel vision came from my parents that said, “Go to school and do what you’re supposed to do.” The things that were going on in the larger picture in terms of how the day to day workings of the desegregation took place wasn’t so much on my radar. But to come back to your question, I don’t know–. The few things that come to mind, I don’t know that anything could have been done much differently than it was, or any better. I can’t really sit here and say I would armchair quarterback it and I would have done some things different.

CD: You don’t remember the day that the schools were first integrated, when we opened in the fall of 1968? You don’t remember that day, do you?

BH: The first day, I don’t, no.

CD: You weren’t aware of the SBI and the FBI and the Highway Patrol all around, all over Franklin County?

BH: Was not, no.

CD: Okay. Let’s see. Oh, did you have any family or friends in other school districts who experienced integration during that period of time?

BH: You mean outside of Franklin County?

CD: Like Vance County, Warren County?

BH: Gosh. I mean I had relatives in Wake County, and some in Nash.

CD: Do you remember if their schools were going through integration at the same time we were?

BH: I believe they were, yeah, but nothing really stands out. It wasn’t a case where I exchanged war stories or there were any to exchange about the–. I think as a larger family we just saw it as kind of an extension of the civil rights movement and this is kind of a necessary thing. Most folks agreed it was a necessary thing that needed to happen, so it was kind of like we were just going along with something that might be awkward and painful for a little while but this is something that needs to happen.

CD: I think I asked you before: were you aware that a group of black parents hired a lawyer from Henderson to represent them, first of all trying to get student assignments under–? At one time Franklin County was ordered to assign ten percent of the black students into formerly white schools, and a group of parents whose children had been assigned to formerly white schools tried to get the board of education to reverse that. You weren’t aware of that.

BH: I was not.

CD: I think I asked you about that before.

BH: Yeah, I was not aware of any of that.

CD: Then I think parents of fifty-five black students hired a lawyer to try to intervene in the lawsuit on behalf of the board of education. I think I mentioned that to you before–

BH: Right, and–

CD: –and you were not aware of any of that.

BH: –that was the first I’d heard of that.

CD: Okay. [Pause] Mr. Carl Harris was principal of the school that you went to in your first four years.

BH: Correct.

CD: And I believe Mr. Harold Green was over there?

BH: Right. Now, Mr. Harris actually continued as principal, I think for a couple of years under desegregation.

CD: Right. And of course Mr. Riggan came in, in 1968, the first year of integration.

BH: Okay.

CD: We had somebody–. I don’t remember who the principal was prior to Mr. Riggan, but anyway. Looking back, do you think Mr. Harris and Mr. Riggan and the administration did–? Could they have done anything different to make the process go any smoother than it actually did?

BH: There’s nothing I could put my finger on. I guess when I hear that question I think, did I see things that they did that didn’t work well, or–. I can’t really pinpoint anything. I mean I think at both campuses–. In ’68 and then later at the high school I had a chance to interact with both. I think they both were trying to look out for the best interest of every student on the campus, and I’m sure it was – I’ll step out on a limb and speak for them – I’m sure it was awkward for them as well.

CD: When you graduated from Louisburg High School and went to North Carolina State were you a resident student over there or were you what we call a commuting student?

BH: I actually did both over the course. I lived there for a couple of years and–.

CD: Your first two years?

BH: Right, the first two, and then I think part of the third year, and then I commuted for the remainder.

CD: How did you get along at North Carolina State?

BH: You know I was one of those students who–. I kind of went to class and I did a few other things, but I went to class and I came home. [Laughs] That was my experience, pretty much.

CD: You were there to get an education and that’s what you did.

BH: Right, right.

CD: I take it you didn’t participate in any extracurricular activities at State?

BH: Not really.

CD: Okay. Is there anything else you want to add to this interview?

BH: Nothing jumps out. I think my experience was, you know, as we got into the high school years, you slowly saw some of the barriers between the students breaking down, but it was still–. It was an interesting thing to kind of watch because I saw socially there was more interaction, like outside of school hours, but then I remember that was kind of restricted, because some of the black students and white students that did interact socially afterwards – this is my observation – I think they did so kind of behind the scenes, if you will. In those years it wasn’t so much–. You still had a lot of folks in the community who looked very oddly at people of two different races, you know, associating in different environments than they had traditionally been doing so, and it kind of comes back to an earlier question. I look at the community at large; there’s always been an association and comingling of races in certain activities, but then there were other activities where there was a clear separation. So I kind of see desegregation of the schools as something that kind of started breaking down some of those barriers but even today, in 2015, I think you still get people with odd looks when it comes to certain topics, like interracial marriage and so forth.

So, I’d say, as a comment, desegregation kind of played a role in helping break down the racial barriers for the community at large because I do [really–. In] my time on the board of education, one of the things that’s really jumped out at me is we get folks that talk to us about what’s going on in the school system, but to me I’m always mindful of the fact the school system is a reflection of the community. So it’s kind of hard to draw a line and say, if there are things that are going on in the schools, you can’t really separate that from what’s going on in the larger community. The two are intertwined incredibly but I don’t personally think a lot of folks really see it that way. That’s how I see it.

CD: Before we stop, before we end, going back to your sister, how did she get along during integration?

BH: You know, she was–. When you asked me about my college experience and I told you I went to class? She was exactly–. She was more so that way than I was. She went to school, she went to class, she–.

CD: Where did she go?

BH: To college?

CD: Yeah.

BH: UNC-Chapel Hill.

CD: Well how about her experience at Louisburg School?

BH: Well, that’s what I was – even in high school as well. She was one, you know, she was–.

CD: There to get an education.

BH: Yeah, and extracurriculars were not–.

CD: She didn’t participate?

BH: Not so much, right.

CD: Okay. Anything else you want to add?

BH: Nothing else I can think of.

CD: Anything you can think of?

Maurice York: What about your mother’s experience as a teacher?

BH: Well, thank you for asking that, and I think we did talk–. Yeah.

CD: Yeah, we did talk about that before, and I’m sorry.

BH: Yeah, my mother taught school for just shy of forty years and she started her career in Nash County and then eventually got a job in Franklin County. I think 1968, the desegregation years, for her–. If I heard any discussion at home it was probably about that, just in terms of questions about how it’s going to work. I mean I think a lot of the African American teachers talked among themselves about, you know, how’s this going to work, who’s going to get assigned to certain classes, and so forth. But my parents, she, being in the school system, they did a good job of kind of insulating my sister and myself from that. We were focused. They tried to keep us focused on, you know: You’re going to school to get an education. This other stuff is going on. Desegregation is going on. As Mr. Davis just mentioned, the law enforcement and the oversight that we had, which I wasn’t aware of, all that stuff was going on, but my parents did the best job they could to kind of keep us focused on: what are you going there for? From my mother’s perspective, from a teacher’s perspective, if she had a lot of trepidation about it she didn’t let that show at home or in other times I observed her. So I’m sure she – and here again I’m going to step out and say I’m sure she probably had a lot of anxiety about it, but we didn’t see that.

CD: Your parents were very active in the church across the road from where you grew up.

BH: Right.

CD: I’m sure that had a lot to do with their approach to the integration, would you think?

BH: I mean certainly their faith, yeah, was a cornerstone for their lives in general. I mean I think that’s what kept them focused. You know, as we sit here, the larger conversation is my parents were older – I say older, I guess when I came along – so they were both Depression-era children, so the experiences they had, when you look at the ’20s and ’30s, well I think by the time you got to the ’60s with desegregation it was just one more milestone on the calendar for them. I guess I say that to say I think they were well prepared by previous life experiences to deal with almost anything that came their way. My dad, for example, was a World War II veteran in General Patton’s army in Europe, so he had seen things that – and I think he pretty much kind of said so many times. He pretty much said so: “The things I’ve already been through, the things we’re going through now in the civil rights movement and in desegregation, well, this really doesn’t compare to other life experiences I’ve already had.” My mother, on the other hand, when she started teaching, she started teaching in the ’30s in a one-room schoolhouse. So if you can imagine going from that to the ’60s with desegregation, again I think it was just one more experience that just kind of fell on their calendar in their lifespan of some pretty incredible things they’d already been through.

CD: Thank you. Anything else you want to add?

BH: I can’t think of anything.

CD: Okay.

END OF INTERVIEW

Transcriber: Deborah Mitchum
Date: June 29, 2015