Interviewee: Elizabeth Strickland Keith

Interviewer: Maurice C. York

Interview Date: April 13, 2015

Location: Louisburg, N.C.

Length: 00:50:36

Audio Excerpt

Maurice York: My name is Maury York. Today is April 13, 2015. I am interviewing Dr. Elizabeth Strickland Keith of Louisburg, North Carolina for an oral history of school desegregation in Franklin County, North Carolina, sponsored by the Tar River Center for History and Culture at Louisburg College with funding provided by the North Carolina Humanities Council. Dr. Keith and I are meeting in the Franklin Male Academy building on the campus of Louisburg College.

Dr. Keith, thank you so much for agreeing to participate in this interview process. I really appreciate it. Tell us, if you will, about your background, when and where you were born and your parents and education.

Elizabeth Strickland Keith: Okay. I’m Elizabeth Keith, as Dr. York has said, and I was born in Franklin County, North Carolina to Joseph and Mirena Strickland – Joseph and Mirena Massenburg Strickland – and I was born January 4, 1950. I’m a graduate of North Carolina Central University, East Carolina University, North Carolina State University, and Nova Southeastern University, from which I received a Bachelor of Science in business and commerce, Master of Arts in education, Curriculum and Instruction Specialist, and Doctor of Education degrees. I’m certified as a classroom teacher in four areas, as a director of career and technical education, a mentor, a principal, and a superintendent. I’ve worked in the Franklin County Schools–. Well, I worked in the Franklin County Schools for forty years before I retired in 2012, and I worked as a classroom teacher, a director of career and technical education, director of student services, including English as a second language and migrant education, director of middle grades and secondary education, and I currently work as a lead evaluator for advanced ed, the certifying body for Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, and I serve as vice chairperson of the Franklin County Board of Education, representing all children but elected in District 3.

MY: Very good. Thank you. You were educated in the Franklin County Schools. Tell us about the schools that you went to.

ESK: I first went to Mapleville, and I stayed there for about three months until we were transferred to what was then Franklin County Training School, and then after that the school was renamed to Riverside School and I went there in the first grade. I went there through grade ten, and then after grade ten I went to Louisburg High School where I completed my education, well, secondary education, there.

MY: Okay. Do you have any recollections of the school at Riverside during your time as a student there, any particular teachers or what it was like to be in school there?

ESK: Yeah, Riverside was a good school. The teachers were good. The recollection that I have that may be somewhat negative is that the books that we used, the books that we received, were all books from students from the predominantly white school at that time, and the reason I know that is because none of those students – the names in the books were not students that attended the schools that we knew. They were not the kids that were, or the children that were right above us, so we knew that those books – and I recognized the names as being names of white students. So that was one of the things; that we always got the books that came from the white school. We didn’t get new books.

MY: Right. So you remember that from throughout your time there?

ESK: Well, I can’t say that it was throughout my time, but I do remember it being there.

MY: Right.

ESK: Yes.

MY: Okay. What about some of the teachers. Were there particular teachers you had at Riverside who particularly struck you as being good teachers?

ESK: My first grade teacher was excellent, Mrs. Fogg. Mrs. Mildred Fogg was one of my first grade teachers. I remember all of my teachers. My second grade teacher was Ms. Madie White and she was very strict, very strict teacher. Then I had Mrs. Alston in third grade; fourth grade I had Mrs. Hawkins; in fifth grade I had [Mrs. Brown]; sixth grade I had Mr. S. D. Harris; seventh grade I had Ms. Gertie Jones; eighth grade, Mr. K. B. Battle. I remember them. They were all good teachers. Not all of them taught everything. My seventh grade teacher, Ms. Gertie Jones, was known for teaching spelling. I mean we learned to spell. That was the year that I won the spelling contest for the county.

MY: Oh, my goodness.

ESK: [Laughs] So, that was memorable. But all of them, they were good teachers. I can’t say that they were not good teachers; they were good teachers.

MY: And do you feel like they really cared about the students and their education?

ESK: No question about it, and if you didn’t do–. Unlike today, your parents were pretty much tuned in to whatever the teacher said, they believed, and if you didn’t do your work and they told your parents then you got a double dose when you got home, because you had to do your work. My parents were very supportive. That was one of the great things that I had in going to Louisburg High School, is that I had a supportive family. Everyone in my family supported me because when we were in school at–. When I transferred to Louisburg High School it was not like you had lots of friends there, you didn’t, so if you didn’t have support at home that would have been a problem.

MY: You briefly mentioned that – unlike today – that was the case. Do you think that was the case with most of the families at Riverside when you were there, that the parents were involved?

ESK: Yes, no question about it. Parents were more involved then than now, because education was so important then. I think it’s important now to parents but I don’t know that it carries the same meaning as it did when I was in school. It was just so important that you got everything that you were supposed to get when you were in school, and if you didn’t you had to pay the consequences with parents.

MY: Why do you think that was? What was it that the parents were thinking maybe in wanting to motivate their children?

ESK: I believe that parents then, and many now, think that education is the key to a better life, to understanding what goes on around you. My parents were. They believed that if you had a good education then you could stand on your own, and that was something that no one could take from you, was what you had between the ears, so to speak, that you were self-sufficient or self-sustaining if you were educated.

MY: Right. Very good. Before we get into the actual desegregation process that you went through, do you have any thoughts about what life was like during the time of segregation in Louisburg and Franklin County? Are there any things that–

ESK: Oh, yes.

MY: –stand out about that?

ESK: Yes. I remember quite well seeing signs on toilets that said “White Only” at stores. I can remember hearing on the radio, “Room for white spectators only,” when there were events going on at Memorial Auditorium or places like that, that you couldn’t go. I mean it was not a mixed audience. So I can really remember hearing that. That rings in my head sometimes. I can remember when the movie theater was that you could only go upstairs. Black or African American children or patrons could only go upstairs and the downstairs was for white patrons.

MY: Now, how did that work? Did you go in the front door and go up some stairs–

ESK: Yes.

MY: –or was there a separate entrance?

ESK:No, you go upstairs. You would go in the front door and go upstairs.

MY: Okay.

ESK: I can remember when you could not sit down and eat at Dick’s Drive-in or the Murphy House. You had to go to the back door and get your food, and I don’t even know that you could go to Dick’s. I don’t remember anyone going there. They might have gone there; I didn’t go there. But I can remember going around back at the Murphy House and ordering food and getting it from the back.

MY: Oh, my goodness. Well, that’s a big difference from today, isn’t it?

ESK: Mm hmm.

MY: Now I want to talk a little bit about your experience as one of the very first African American students to integrate the public schools here in Louisburg. Tell me about that process.

ESK: Well, I was not–. Of course you know, in 1965, there were sixty-five black students that were supposed to be throughout the county. I think there were about thirty-five that were supposed to be at the Louisburg School. I was not one of those, but because there was so much controversy and–. I guess–. I don’t want to say “retribution” because that’s not the right word. There was so much controversy about that and people were living on other people’s farms and they were just afraid. They were told they were going to have to get off if they let their children go. If they sent their children there they were going to–. They were fearful of being harmed so they declined, so I don’t think there were that many that were going, not enough for the court order. So Mr. Smith, Warren Smith, came and asked my parents if I could go.

MY: Now, who was Warren Smith?

ESK: He was the superintendent at the time.

MY: Okay.

ESK: He was the superintendent of schools and he asked my mother and father if I could go to Louisburg High School. Well, of course they asked me if I would go, and of course, being a child, I didn’t really want to go but my dad told me it was about access, that it would mean access for other kids and, “This is something that you can do because you have the stamina, you have the background; you can do it. You’re intelligent.” So he told me that and I said, yeah, I would go.

MY: Now, this was in the fall of when?

ESK: This was in the summer of 1966.

MY: Summer of ’66.

ESK: Mm hmm.

MY: Why do you think Mr. Smith asked your parents?

ESK: The only reason I can think is that, first for all, they knew he was education-minded; my father was, very education-minded. He’d been the president of PTA at Riverside and he was known to be education-minded, and he was an educated man so he understood education and what the ramifications of not being educated would be. The schools were subpar. They were not equal. Even though they were purported to be equal they were not equal. So he wanted me to go so others would have access; that’s my belief.

MY: Right. So, you said you agreed to do it.

ESK: Yes.

MY: Tell me about how you felt, say, on the first day of school that fall.

ESK: I hated it. I hated it.

MY: You went from Riverside High School to Louisburg High School. How many other African American students were there that fall?

ESK: There were about six or seven.

MY: Okay, and what grade were you?

ESK: Tenth. Eleventh, I’m sorry, eleventh.

MY: So you were transferring as a junior.

ESK:Yes.

MY: And there were just six or so others. What made you not like it?

ESK: Well, it was a lonely feeling. It was just like you left your friends, and it wasn’t like today that you could text or you had telephones and cell phones. We had telephones but you didn’t–. Half of the kids in class probably didn’t. We weren’t calling each other on them. So, it was just a lonely feeling.

MY: Did you have much interaction with the white children at Louisburg High School?

ESK: No. We were in the classroom with them but no; we did not. There was no conversation.

MY: So how would you say the white children in general reacted to y’all being there?

ESK: Well, some of them were just–. Most of them were just: you’re there. They didn’t pay you any attention and you were just there. Some were – I should say a little mean. They would make fun or pick or say mean things sometimes, but it was not unbearable, but it was not nice either.

MY: Right. Can you remember any particular incidents, associated with your time there, that particularly stand out in your mind, any stories?

ESK: Well, maybe one or two. I can remember I was an usher at the class play, and of course that’s when you dress up, you have on gloves, and you usher people in. I can remember one of the people coming in said that they were not going to let one of the n-word people seat them, so that stands out a little bit. I can remember at graduation that there was a seat between me and the person that was next to me because he refused to sit next to me at graduation, so they left a seat. Little things like that, mostly.

MY: How did those things make you feel?

ESK: Well, you know, you just wonder why, but it didn’t really bother me because, like I said, I had a firm foundation from home, and I think that’s so important, for kids or children to have a foundation, support system at home, and then those things on the outside don’t bother you that much. You just sort of feel sorry for the people more so than anything else. You don’t hate because you don’t do that. I mean you’re taught not to do that, when you have the right support system at home.

MY: Right.

ESK: But the teachers were nice. Now, that I need to say: most of the teachers were nice. We had one that wasn’t so nice, and I’m not going to call any names, but had one that wasn’t so nice, but other than that the teachers were really just solid teachers.

MY: And these were all white teachers.

ESK: They were all white teachers, yes, but they were really, really teachers. They were teachers from the heart.

MY: Are there any teachers there who stand out in your mind as being particularly good ones?

ESK: Mrs. Bland was an excellent teacher. She taught us English and she was an excellent teacher. Of course she wouldn’t touch anybody’s paper, and when we first got there she had gloves. She wore gloves, and she graded everything with gloves. We thought it was because we were there that she was doing that but I understood later that that was just her way. She was always worried about catching germs, so she never–. I don’t know if it was like that before we came but she did it with everybody.

MY: Well, it was like that after you were there–

ESK: [Laughs]

MY: –because I remember Mrs. Bland too.

ESK: Yeah, she was a good English teacher.

MY: Anyone else stand out?

ESK: Mrs. Lloyd. She was an Arnold. She was my business teacher and she was probably the reason I went into business, and of course my counselor, Mrs. Hobgood, was excellent. Most of them were good, but they were the–. If I had to name three that I really had an affection for, it would be Mrs. Bland, Mrs. Hobgood, who was my counselor, and Mrs. Arnold, who later became Mrs. Lloyd, that was my business teacher.

MY: Right. Very good. When you first went to Louisburg High School what differences did you notice between that school and Riverside?

ESK: The main difference that I recognized, at Louisburg High School the kids were able to smoke. [Laughs] We couldn’t smoke. There was no smoking at Riverside but at Louisburg there were smokers. And we got new books, the science lab had more in it, I think. It just seemed like it had more equipment.

MY: Were you involved in athletics at all? Did you participate in any team sports?

ESK: No. I did not.

MY: Is that because of the integration situation or just not being particularly interested in sports?

ESK: Oh, I loved sports. I’m a sports fanatic now. Yeah, I liked sports, but we didn’t think that was a good idea so we didn’t do that because it would require a lot of night activity, if you were in basketball or cheerleading, or anything like that, so my parents and I decided that maybe that wasn’t a good idea.

MY: Okay. Speaking of your family and friends, how did they feel about this process as it unfolded?

ESK: Well, you know, we didn’t talk a whole lot about it. Every day, you know, everybody was asking, “How are you doing?” [and we said], “We’re doing okay.” Like I said, when I left Riverside my friends didn’t–. We didn’t have any interaction, which was bad. The only interaction I had with other children were the ones at church, and many times–. I don’t remember any of them being in my particular class when I was at Riverside, so they were not the people that I interacted with when I was there. So, like I said, for those two years it was just a lonely existence for a teenager because you were not around anybody that was your friend anymore, and communication was not then like it is now. It’s almost unimaginable to think that–. You know, you would go for months and not talk to anyone that was in your class, and living in the country, as I did – I was seven miles out – we were not going to basketball games there. I never went to a basketball game that was at Riverside when I left. It was not something we did because we were farming and we were working and it was not something that we did; probably didn’t even know when they were having one.

MY: Right. So you really did feel isolated.

ESK: Yes. That’s the main thing, I felt isolated, and I think most of us did because it was just not–. I mean you went there and you did your work. Sometimes I probably didn’t speak ten words the whole day.

MY: Well, let me ask you about that. In terms of what the classroom instruction was like, were there opportunities for the teachers to call on students to do certain things or did they just talk at you and have you regurgitate it later? In other words, did you participate in class?

ESK: Yes, the three that I called. Well the two, because Ms. Hobgood was my counselor. But yeah: in English and in the business classes, full participation; in the other classes, not so much.

MY: And was that–? Tell me why you say that? Why were the other ones different?

ESK: Well, some of them, the teachers kept their back to us. I mean they didn’t even see us. One or two just sort of would ignore you.

MY: You mean “you” being the African American students.

ESK: Yes.

MY: As opposed to ignoring the whole class.

ESK: Yes. So our grades were, like I said, in at least one class was based on just what you did on the test.

MY: Right. Did you notice any difference in the difficulty at the work at Louisburg High School as opposed to at Riverside? I know of course it was different subjects and different levels, but.

ESK: To tell you the honest truth, the only one – and it could have been that, like you said, I had moved to a different level – is that we did a lot more writing in the English class, a lot more writing and a lot more reading of various novels and that kind of thing, and then to analyze. I saw that in the English class. The other classes, they were similar.

MY: Were there any incidents that occurred at the school that might have been as a result of integration while you were there?

ESK: We were called to the office several times because of things that were not, you know–. There was confusion, I should say, conflict between us, and I can remember one time Mr. Fox, who was the principal when I was there, called us to the office because there was an almost fight out at the smoking area. He told us that we were pioneers and that we had to–. There were some things that we were going to have to endure, which was sort of disconcerting somewhat in that, you know, everybody wasn’t called in to sort of settle it. But that, and I can remember when I was at Louisburg one time there was a carload of boys that came down – and I lived on a dead end – and they had guns hanging out of the car. For some reason I was never afraid when I was there, even though people told us that we could be killed, but I was never afraid, and I told them, I said, “Listen, my daddy will kill you.” I said, “Don’t come down here with those guns anymore, because he will really–. He’ll hurt you.” So that never happened again, but they came out and they had I guess about five or six guns hanging out of the car.

MY: At your farmhouse.

ESK: Yes, down where we lived. They were on the road, which was a public road, but they were on it [and there was] no reason to be there because it was a dead end road.

MY: Were these students from the high school?

ESK: Yeah, I knew them.

MY: So they were students from Louisburg High School.

ESK: Yes.

MY: Did they say anything to you?

ESK: No. They were just sort of–. I think they were really trying to frighten you but of course, like I said, I was never afraid.

MY: You mentioned just a moment ago that people said that bad things could happen to you. How did people feel about intimidation in general? Was there a lot of concern about people being intimidated?

ESK: Yeah, in fact that’s why a lot of people didn’t go. The ones that were originally scheduled to go didn’t go because they were intimidated by threat of physical harm, or losing their ability to live at a certain location, ability to make a living, work wherever, so that was real.

MY: Right. What would you say were some positive and negative aspects of being one of the first students to integrate Louisburg High School?

ESK: Well, I think one of the positives was that it had to be done, and it’s sort of like when you feel that you’re able to do something that others might not be able to do. Now, there were some children that would not have been able to be there for more than one reason. If you feel inferior then more than likely you are. I did not feel inferior. I didn’t feel superior but I didn’t feel inferior and I felt that whatever was being offered, so far as education was concerned, I could do it as well as anyone else. So, I wasn’t intimidated at all, and I think that came from family support because, like I said, my father was an advocate. He understood the process and what was happening. We were not going there because we particularly wanted to be friends with anybody there, or you wanted to take anything away, but we were all paying taxes and anything that was available should be available to any taxpayer’s child.

So, I think that was the thing that made me understand, and then I’m not–. I was never bitter about anything. When I look back I’m not bitter because, when you think about it, this was a lifestyle that had gone on for hundreds of years, so you couldn’t fault people for what they were and what they knew, what they had been taught. I think our job, and what I saw my job as, to make sure that they understood that that maybe isn’t the right way to be and that, you know, we all are in this thing together and that’s how we have to live. In a society people have to live together and, yes, there are going to be differences. There are going to be differences in religion, there are going to be differences in the way you look, height, weight, what you believe, but as long as you don’t infringe on somebody else then you’re free to do that.

MY: Right. Did you notice any change in the way you interacted with the white students, or they interacted with you, during the two years you were at Louisburg High School?

ESK: I did, I did.

MY: How did it evolve?

ESK: We never were buddies, I can tell you that. We were never buddies; we were never going to pick up the phone and call. We never got to that point, but we got to the point where if I had a question or they had a question about something related to school we could talk with each other about that.

MY: So it sounds like people became more comfortable with the process as time went on.

ESK: Yes.

MY: Looking back on this, from the vantage point of – fifty years, almost.

ESK: It is.

MY: How would you say this experience has affected you?

ESK: I think I understand. I can understand when people do things or when they don’t do things. I understand where they come from. Some of them come from a point of meanness. Some of them come from a point of ignorance. Some of them come from a point of being good people, just being good people, because there were good things that went on as well. We hear a lot about the negative but there were good things that went on, especially with the teachers. I mean they counseled, advised, so you learned that no matter what there are some people that are going to step out and speak up for what they believe is right, and there are some that are going to sit back and just say, “Well, you know, I’m not in that. I shouldn’t say anything.” One of my favorite quotes is, “Those who sit back–. Evil thrives because good people do nothing.” That’s, in essence, what it says, “Evil can thrive because good people do nothing.” So I think good people, really good people, speak up when they see something wrong, and I saw some of that in my time at Louisburg High School. I did.

MY: Can you remember some specific instances of that, of people speaking up when they saw something wrong?

ESK: Mostly the teachers would do that, and that was in your day-to-day. If they saw someone doing something that they shouldn’t do they would stop it, and that was one of the things that I wanted to emulate when I taught, was to make sure that every child in my classroom was safe and that they felt safe and that they didn’t feel threatened or bullied by anyone. So, I think that was one of the great things that I got from that because we were not–. The kids were not allowed to do things to us. The teachers didn’t allow that.

MY: Right.

ESK: Most of the incidents would happen after, you know, during bus riding time, or during lunchtime, or breaks. That’s when things happened. I never felt threatened in the classroom.

MY: So, what would a typical lunch period be like for you when you were at Louisburg High School?

ESK: Well, we would take our own lunch. I didn’t eat in the cafeteria. We didn’t buy lunch. I took my lunch and most of the time I’d just have a sandwich and buy milk, maybe, a carton of milk.

MY: Did you go to the cafeteria to have your lunch?

ESK: Yes, we would sit there sometimes. Sometimes we’d sit outside but sometimes we’d go to the cafeteria.

MY: Okay, and did you sit with the other African American students?

ESK: Yes, always.

MY: As a group?

ESK: Mm hmm.

MY: Okay. Now, you rode the bus to school?

ESK: Yes.

MY: What were those bus rides like?

ESK: [Laughs] Sometimes they were pretty harrowing, sometimes. [One of the things I remember], when Martin Luther King was killed we were–. I think it was on a Thursday, that Thursday night that he was killed, and of course we had to go to school on that Friday, and on that Friday morning when we got on the bus – when I got on the bus – some of the kids were laughing because he had been killed, and that was pretty heartbreaking because anyone who knows much about African Americans knows that they idolize Martin Luther King. He’s one of our heroes, and that was heartbreaking.

None of the white kids wanted to sit with us, of course, and sometimes we would sit on separate seats and they wouldn’t sit. They preferred to stand versus sitting with us, so that was pretty harrowing. I mean it wasn’t bothersome, it was just–. You know, sometimes we’d pull a joke.

MY: Oh, really?

ESK: Yeah.

MY: So tell me about that. [Laughs]

ESK: [Laughs] We’d just sit on different seats and they couldn’t sit. They wouldn’t sit. [Laughs]

MY: I know when I rode the bus we had to fill up the seats.

ESK: That’s correct. They didn’t have to sit with us.

MY: They didn’t have to.

ESK: No.

MY: If it worked out that someone would have to sit with you in order to fill it up they just wouldn’t do it.

ESK: Uh-uh. No, they wouldn’t do that.

MY: And the bus drivers didn’t make them do it.

ESK: No, no, because they were student drivers at the time. They were all student drivers.

MY: Very interesting. Well, looking back at this whole process, how would you characterize the school integration in Franklin County in general?

ESK: For Louisburg–. Now, like I said, I wasn’t familiar with what happened at Franklinton or Bunn. I’m just not that familiar with that but at Louisburg, while I was there, I think it was probably a little smoother than it was when it actually happened in 1968, from what I hear, because when there were few of us I guess we had to blend in and follow suit. It wasn’t total chaos, like some places. I think it was more of a–. It was smooth for us, as far as we knew. I know there were a lot of things going on behind the scenes that we knew nothing about, but what I knew, when I got to school, it was business as usual for the most part.

MY: Okay. Now, was there anything like a senior trip when you were a senior?

ESK: No. We did have the senior prom and, as I said, there was a class play, but if there was a senior trip I don’t know anything about it. I don’t remember it. But there was, like I said, the senior play, and the kids with the higher averages were ushers, which I was one of those, and we dressed, and we would seat the people as they came in. There was the senior prom, and we went to the prom and we only stayed a little while and then–. Well, I went home, of course. [Laughs] But there was a prom and it wasn’t canceled, like in many places they would cancel those, but no. But of course we danced with our own peer group, and that was it. We did not dance with any of the white kids.

MY: Did it go smoothly?

ESK: It did. We didn’t have any problem. There was no problem that I know about.

MY: I’m sure there were some good chaperones there.

ESK: Oh, yes. No question.

MY: Well, looking back, perhaps as a school teacher and administrator, how do you feel about the whole process of school integration? Do you see it as being–? Well, how would you characterize it

ESK: Well, I see it as being positive when you’ve got good administrators and good teachers. If you have administrators that are – and I don’t want to say “slack,” but for lack of a better word I might say–. If they’re not progressive and see things as they are and have standards in place, if that’s not the case then you have a problem just with school in general. I don’t see any problem with integration because we have to get away from black, white, whatever, any ethnic group, any religion. We need to get away from that and look at the core business of school, and the core business of school is to educate. The other stuff–. We’re not into religion. See, lot’s of people get upset because they say we’ve taken God out of the schools but that’s not our business. We’re not there to teach God because there’s so many religions and so, depending on who you are, you could be teaching anything. You could be teaching Christianity, Islam, any of the religions, Buddhist. You could be teaching anything, so we don’t want to be into the religious business in the public schools. Since we’re public schools we have to be about the business of educating in the academic world. So I see that as being our business and I don’t see integration as being a hindrance to that, if that’s what you purport to do.

MY: One thing that is interesting to me is that Franklin County is still one of two counties under court order in regard to integration. Can you shed any light on why that is?

ESK: Well, the courts ask for a report every year, and if that report doesn’t show enough progress toward being equal then you stay there, and we’ve not shown that, even though in some instances it might be difficult. One of the areas that they look at is the number of – and this is about black and white. Our court order is not about Hispanic, it’s not about any other ethnic group, even though we have many of those groups in the schools. This court order is about black and white. But what we have to do is have more kids in the high level classes, which we don’t. Some of the high level classes are just almost totally segregated. When you get to the high level maths, the sciences, they’re not there, the black kids are not there. It’s also about the administration and how many black administrators you have, and they’re just not there. It’s not because they can’t be there, it’s because I don’t believe that there’s the will to make sure that all these kids are academically progressing, and that’s why we are still under the court order.

MY: I see. One thing that I should have asked a little while ago and didn’t was, there was a group of African American families who actually hired an attorney in Henderson, Linwood Peoples, to represent them in their desire not to be involved in racial desegregation. Do you have any knowledge of that or why that was?

ESK: I don’t, none whatsoever.

MY: It didn’t really affect you.

ESK: No.

MY: Okay. Well, Dr. Keith, let me ask you if there’s anything that I’ve left out. I know that there are probably some questions I should have asked. Is there anything that you would like to add concerning this experience you had?

ESK: ESK: The only thing I’d like to add is that I’m glad I had it. You know, people look back on things and say, “Oh, that was something that was a dreadful time in my life,” but it was not. It was a learning experience for me. It taught me to live with and love myself, to always be able to entertain myself or to read more avidly than I think I might would have. I’m so appreciative that I had that experience and that my father and mother felt that, you know, that would be something that I was capable of doing, because there were many children, I believe, that would not have done it.

MY: Right. Now, let me ask you this. You went off to college and learned to be a teacher.

ESK: Yes.

MY: When did you come back to Franklin County to teach and what grade level?

ESK: Four years after I went off to college, in 1972, I came back to Franklin County and was hired at Youngsville High School then, and I taught business.

MY: All right, and so by this time the schools are completely integrated.

ESK: Integrated.

MY: What can you remember about your experience at Youngsville High School?

ESK: It was wonderful. It was like a family. Being at Youngsville, when I first started to teach, was like a family. Didn’t have a bad experience there. The teachers were really accepting and my best friend was there. There were three, I believe–. Well, there was one other black teacher that was on the hall with me and that was it, and she was not in high school. But it was a wonderful experience. Everybody worked together to help each other. I had a mentor, Jack Ayscue, and he took me under his wing, so to speak, and showed me how to be a teacher and worked with me as being the school advisor for the yearbook, student council, and I was at Youngsville more than I was at home. I just loved teaching. It’s something that I love, and I love children.

MY: Right. Was the student body fairly well balanced at Youngsville?

ESK: No. They were mostly white. Most of the kids were white, but they were wonderful children, I still keep in contact with a lot of them today, and I think with children, when they understand that you care about them and that that’s what you do, that’s what you do: you care about them. It doesn’t matter if you’re black, white, blue, or green. They don’t care. And most children are good. There’s only maybe two or three percent of the population that’s not good. You hear about the ones that are not so good but most of the children are very, very good and if they find out or they understand that you care about them and you want them to learn, and that’s all you’re interested in, is their wellbeing, you have no trouble with children.

MY: Very good. I’m jumping around now–

ESK: That’s fine.

MY: –but it’s my fault. You mentioned Mr. Fox. He called you in, you and a group of the African American students, into the office one day and said that you were going to have to just endure this. Tell me about Mr. Fox. What kind of principal was he?

ESK: He was a kind person, I believe. I didn’t have a lot of interaction with him but when you did he was kind and gentle, and I believe he wanted to–. He was a peacekeeper. He was not, as some might be, you know, very heavy-handed. He was not heavy-handed at all on anyone. He was more of a peacekeeper, and that’s what he was trying to do is keep the peace, I believe.

MY: And how would you characterize his success in doing that?

ESK: I think he did a good job, I really do, because this was something, I mean we were [in unknown] territory, all of us were, so we were playing it by ear, so to speak, and so was he. And I think he had the right personality for the time. I really do. I think he was the right person to be there at that time, because if someone had come down on us too hard, that wouldn’t have worked, and if he’d been too lenient it wouldn’t have worked, so I think he was the right person. He did not mistreat us. We were not mistreated. I do believe if things had gotten out of hand we would have been protected, but I think he put a little bit of the onus on us.

MY: Right. All right, is there anything else that you would like to say before we close this?

ESK: I can’t think of anything.

MY: All right, well thank you so much.

ESK: You’re welcome.

MY: I certainly have enjoyed speaking with you.

ESK: You as well.

END OF INTERVIEW

Transcriber: Deborah Mitchum
Date: July 12, 2015