Interviewee: Margaret Vell Bennett

Interviewer: Maurice C. York

Interview Date: May 19, 2015

Location: Louisburg, N.C.

Length: 00:24:15

Audio Excerpt

Maurice York: My name is Maury York. Today is May 19, 2015. I am interviewing Margaret Vell Bennett of Louisburg, North Carolina for an oral history of school desegregation in Franklin County, North Carolina, sponsored by the Tar River Center for History and Culture at Louisburg College with funding provided by the North Carolina Humanities Council.

Vell, thank you so much for agreeing to do an interview for us.

Margaret Vell Bennett: Well, thank you for asking me to be part of history.

MY: Well, you’re welcome. Vell, let’s get started by you telling me a little bit about your background, where you were born, your parents, your education, and your career.

MVB: I was born here in Louisburg at the house right next to the Baptist church – it was a hospital at that time, it was run by Dr. Bland and my grandmother was the receptionist there – on June 25, 1950. My father’s from here. My mother is too but her family came from Youngsville and my father’s parents mostly came from Bunn. They were raised here in Louisburg and I was raised here. I went to Mills High School until 1960 when they changed it to Louisburg and moved it up Main Street on the Allen property. I went there sixth grade through twelfth grade, then I went one year to Louisburg College, and then I transferred to UNC-Chapel Hill to the school of pharmacy to finish out, so I could get my pharmacy degree.

MY: Have you always worked as a pharmacist?

MVB: Yes. I mean as a child I did a lot of different things. My daddy wanted me to get used to working on a farm so I worked in tobacco, which was an experience and a good education to make me go on [Laughs] to get a college degree.

MY: Right. So your father was a farmer?

MVB: He ran a hardware store and he ran the Union Warehouse as a tobacconist, as they used to call them, but he also raised tobacco and sold it too.

MY: Okay. Where was that tobacco warehouse?

MVB: That is where the Judge Hobgood Building is now, on Main Street.

MY: Okay. Right. Your mother, did she work outside the home?

MVB: She did. I believe she started when I was in about the seventh grade. She went to Louisburg College and she took like a secretary but she worked in medical records and stuff, things like that. Then she worked at Duke before she got married. When she and Daddy married they came back here, and I don’t believe she worked then until after–. She had three children, I was the baby, and when I was in the seventh grade she went back to work.

MY: All right, very good. How long have you worked as a pharmacist?

MVB: I got my license–. Let me see. [Counting years] I got my license in ’74, so that’s forty-one years.

MY: That’s a good record. Well, congratulations. You said that you transferred to what’s now Louisburg High School after having attended here at Mills. What was the school like then, at the new high school?

MVB: Oh, it was just–. Everything was new and modern and we had–. The old gym at Mills High creaked and the floor was bumpy. I don’t know how they ever played basketball on it.

MY: [Laughs]

MVB: Then we had a nice new gym, everything was new, and the rooms were a good size. I can’t remember if we had air conditioning or not. I don’t believe we did right at first, but of course they have it now. It was just easier to get around, I thought. The high school and junior high were in a separate building, and the elementary was in another building too, and we had covered walkways to go to the lunchroom, which we didn’t have when we were at Mills.

MY: Right. So you could go to lunch without getting wet. [Laughs]

MVB: Getting wet. [Laughs] Yeah.

MY: Do you have any recollections about teachers there who especially influenced you or whom you really liked?

MVB: Well I have to say my first teacher at Louisburg High School was my sister. She taught sixth grade and she taught me, and I had to call her Ms. Davis, even though I slipped up every once in awhile. [Laughs]

MY: [Laughs] Well that’s unique.

MVB: Yeah, it was unique. Ms. Jolly, I don’t know if you remember Ms. Jolly. I had Ms. Jolly in the seventh grade and she kind of wanted to–. She introduced kind of like an accelerated program for kids to maybe encourage them to go to college and we did a lot of different things with her. I enjoyed her. Then in seventh grade, in junior high, that’s the first time I ever had a male teacher – now they have them in elementary – and that was different. Then in high school Mr. Morgan was our math teacher and he was very good. I learned a lot of math under him. I had Mr. Hobgood for biology and he was great.

MY: Now, Mr. Hobgood–.

MVB: Not Hobgood, I’m sorry, Mr. Chadwick. [00:06:31] Mr. Chadwick. You know, he had retired from Louisburg College and he came back and he taught at the high school. He taught biology. Then I did have Ms. Hobgood, Judge Hobgood’s mother. She was a good teacher too.

MY: Margaret Hobgood.

MVB: Margaret, mm hmm.

MY: Well they are some good teachers.

MVB: Yeah. I remember I had a lot of good teachers. They were just–. And Ms. [00:07:01] was good. Stern, but they were good. You learned a lot.

MY: Right. I want to shift a little bit, before we get into talking about the desegregation of that school, to ask you about if there are any things about life during segregation that particularly come to mind for you. As a young person growing up in Franklin County, are there any ways of life or incidents that you remember that reflect race relations in Louisburg and Franklin County?

MVB: [Pause] I don’t–. You know, I just remember, you know, you’d see the “Colored Only” when you went to the movies. They went upstairs, we went downstairs. There are things like that. I grew up with that. That was, you know, it was the norm then, I guess you could say. I mean we all got along. I didn’t associate with–. Except if, you know, a maid had a child and would bring the child sometimes, but not many times. That’s about the only time.

MY: Right. So your family did have black women who worked in your home?

MVB: Mama didn’t have a maid every day. She might have a lady come in and iron or help her clean, do some spring cleaning, and when I worked with my daddy on the tobacco farm I [00:08:54] tobacco with them and we got along fine, you know. In fact it was fun working with them.

MY: Right. Can you tell me anything about that experience, because that’s a way of life that’s gone?

MVB That is. It is. Well, you got down in the–. When Daddy would take me out with them and he’d take the young men, the boys and the young men, and they would do the priming, pulling the leaves off, and the ladies would stand there and what we call wrap. They’d take the string and tie it around on the pole so it would stay on the pole – the stick, tobacco stick –

MY: Right.

MVB: –and these ladies were so talented. I mean, if you had a good wrapper she could really–. You handed it as fast as you could because she could do a stick in fifteen, twenty minutes, you know. It was amazing. She would take them from–. I’d be on one side of her, like a right side, and another one would be on the left side and she’d take and wrap that way. It was just amazing to watch them wrap.

MY: They must have done it for many, many years.

MVB: Yes, and then at the end of the day–. We’d stack it up, and at the end of the day the boys and the young men would climb up in the barn and you’d hand the sticks up to them, and they were heavy as lead with all that tobacco on it. Then at night I’d come back home and Daddy would go back to the barn and he’d stay with them. Sometimes they had–. This was before most people had the gas curing. He’d stay there so he could stoke the fire and keep it going.

MY: Where was this farm?

MVB: Well, we had one on 401 going to Raleigh, and then there was one–. We turned off on–. It wasn’t on Peach Orchard Road. You turned off of Franklin Road, somewhere near the Timberlake Road, as far as I can remember.

MY: Right. So, it sounds like although you didn’t always enjoy working in tobacco there were aspects that appealed.

MVB: When you get a tobacco worm as big as your finger on–. [Laughs] You know, they just–. And your hands were–. The gum made them black and it was hard to get off at the end of the day, but the company was fun.

MY: Right. Well that’s great. Let’s talk a little bit about the integration of the school at Louisburg. I believe this happened when you were in high school.

MVB: A junior.

MY: A junior in high school.

MVB: Mm hmm.

MY: This would have been 1967?

MVB: ’66.

MY: ’66.

MVB: ’66-67.

MY: Okay, that school year. How did people around you react to the idea that we were going to integrate the schools? Do you remember how people reacted and what they said?

MVB: I really–. I know we heard a lot on TV, I saw the TV, but around here, yes, they had some incidents, but I really don’t remember the incidents. My daddy wasn’t doing well and I just–. I was sixteen years old and I had other things on my mind, [Laughs] you know.

MY: Right.

MVB: When they came to school–. I do remember the first day of school. It was mighty quiet. Usually, you know, when you come back to school that first day we were all happy and laughing, you know, talking, but it seemed like it was really quiet, and I guess it’s because we had people in the school observing us, but I just remember it was really quiet.

MY: Now you say, “We had people observing us.” Do you know who they were?

MVB: No. They were men and I don’t remember–. Since then Charles has told me they were probably marshals or something, US marshals and FBI, but I don’t remember.

MY: Right. Who was the principal at the school? Do you remember?

MVB: Mr. Fox.

MY: Mr. Fox.

MVB: I think it was A.J. Fox. I think that’s what his name was.

MY: Did he or the teachers give y’all any kind of guidance or instructions concerning what was going to happen?

MVB: Not that I remember. I just remember the day in class that Ms. Bartholomew–. She was the homeroom teacher for the junior class and there were several black students. Elizabeth Strickland – she’s now [00:14:09 Dot] Keith – she was sitting in the row next to me and Ms. Bartholomew asked me if I would help her, show her around the school. Beth McDonald was in my class. She asked Beth if she would help Martha Gill. So that’s what we did, and that’s all I–. And we showed them around, you know, just where the lunchroom was, where the restrooms were, how to get to their classes, and stuff like that.

MY: Right. So there were these two young women in your homeroom–.

MVB: Yeah, and there were more. I went back and looked at my annual. There was a Dorothy Kearny and another lady, and I don’t know what happened. I just remember those two–

MY: Right, but there were–

MVB: –because they were sitting right next to us.

MY: Right, but there were other students who had come.

MVB: Yes. There were several boys. Ollie Burrell was one of them. There was a Gill, Larry Gill. There were several of them.

MY: Right. What was it like interacting with Elizabeth Strickland and showing her around the school?

MVB: I think right at first she was shy, but it was fine. We got along fine. You know, you can imagine at sixteen coming in to a new school with all these people you don’t know. I just can’t even imagine how hard it would be, especially if you feel like some of them don’t want you there. I can’t imagine how hard it would be, but I thought she did very well and we got along fine, I thought. I hope she–. I don’t know how she felt but I thought we got along fine.

MY: Right. Well, she was the one who suggested that I interview you, so I think that speaks for itself. What was your perception of how these students participated in the school in terms of on a daily classroom basis or in athletics or extracurricular activities?

MVB: I don’t think they really did much that first year. The next year when we were seniors several of them went on our senior trip with us. But, from what I’m remembering they didn’t a lot, and I can understand. I remember in the lunchroom they sat together, and I can understand that.

MY: Right.

MVB: It was very brave, what they did. I think they were very brave.

MY: Right. Tell me about the senior trip–

MVB: Oh, that was–.

MY: –and your senior year.

MVB: We were the last class to have a senior trip, [Laughs] and it was not because of integration, it was because we had several that misbehaved [Laughs] kind of. They were away from home for the first time and they just–. I think–. Well, I don’t know how to say it, but could you turn it off? [Laughs]

[Break in recording]

MY: What I was hoping you could tell me, Vell, is where did you go on the trip, first of all?

MVB: We went to Washington first, just to see the sights in Washington, and I was so impressed because we got to see the Bill of Rights, I’d never seen that, and, you know, the Smithsonian, and it was just really a nice trip, I thought. Then we went to New York City and we saw a play. What else? We saw something else up there, but it was just a really nice trip. I had an uncle that lived up there and they even let him come to my hotel and he took me to his apartment. That wouldn’t happen today. But, it was really nice.

MY: The fact that you had some African American students in that group, how did that affect it, or did it affect it?

MVB: It didn’t. It didn’t at all. We all enjoyed it and we had a good time, I think.

MY: Okay. Did the white students at Louisburg High School associate much with these new students who came?

MVB: I don’t think so, the first year. In the second year we did more. I can’t even remember if they came to our junior-senior. At that time the juniors hosted the junior-senior prom for the senior class and I don’t think they came that junior year, but I believe they did come their senior year.

MY: So it sounds like they may have felt more comfortable being there by then.

MVB: Yes.

MY: Do you remember any incidents that occurred during these two years as a result of the integration of the school?

MVB: No, I don’t. I’m sure there might have been some. I don’t remember hearing anything said to them. It might have been but I didn’t ever hear it. I was not aware of it.

MY: Right. So there weren’t any big disturbances or anything.

MVB: No. I really thought we did – not like you saw on TV. I thought we did really well.

MY: How did you feel about this experience at the time? Were you–? Well, how did you feel about the fact that this was going to happen and then did happen?

MVB: Well I think, you know, I think we all knew–. I knew it was going to happen and we just might as well accept it and move on. That’s the way you have to do. They came in, they were very nice, and we didn’t have any problem with them.

MY: Right. Very good. [Pause] One thing I was curious about is involvement of parents. I know that today we’re so concerned because many parents aren’t very involved in their children’s education and at their schools. Was there a lot of parental involvement at this time among both whites and these African American students? Do you recall?

MVB: When I was growing up, the parents–. In the elementary thing the parents did get involved. As you got into high school they didn’t unless there was a problem or something, but they would come, you know, to ceremonies and stuff. But I really don’t remember my parents ever–. Yes, if I did something wrong, yes they would come and get involved, but if everything was going fine they didn’t, and they were proud if I did something good. I don’t remember any black parents coming there, but all those students that came, like Elizabeth and them, they worked hard and I guess they were doing okay with their grades, you know, but I don’t remember seeing their parents there.

MY: Right. Okay.

MVB: And of course our parents helped when we did something, like the junior-senior, or when we went on class trips some of them were chaperones. They did that, you know.

MY: Right. Were there any African American chaperones on your senior trip?

MVB: No. No, we had–. Let’s see. It was two teachers – Mr. Funks, Ms. Arnold – another gentleman, Pete Shearon, and little Billy’s mom. I think that’s all we–. And then the bus driver. That was [all].

MY: Do you remember any stories about these two years that would be interesting to know about, that had to do with the integration?

MVB: No, because, see, nothing really–. We didn’t ever really have anything. I’ve got stories that happened among the class but, you know–. We had a reunion, and now when we have a reunion we invite them but they don’t come. I guess they felt they were outsiders, and I’m sorry that happened, but I can understand they had their own friends too.

MY: All right, well is there anything I’ve left out that I should have asked you, that you were expecting me to ask?

MVB: No, I don’t think so. I don’t think so. [Laughs] I hope I’ve helped you. Like I said, I feel like I kind of went through this with blinders on.

MY: Well, I think that’s fine. I think that, in and of itself, you know, gives us some insight into the way things played out at that time. So, thank you so much.

END OF INTERVIEW

Transcriber: Deborah Mitchum
Date: June 25, 2015